What if your greatest strength as a leader wasn't about how much you knew, but how deeply you connected? Imagine a leadership approach that feels effortless, authentic, and inspiring, not just for those you lead, but for yourself. Stay tuned to hear how Michelle Howe describes how your connection skills are your superpower. Welcome to Helping Healers Succeed. This is for you if you felt the call to heal, to make a real difference in people's lives, but you also know that turning your gift into a thriving, sustainable career can feel overwhelming. You're listening to Dr. Anastasia Chopelas, a physicist turned energy healer, Your guide with tips, stories, and interviews for building and growing a successful healing practice with confidence and ease using practical strategies, science based insights, and inspiration to help you increase your impact and income without burning out. Be sure to subscribe to my channel so you don't miss any of the upcoming programs in store for you. Welcome back. I'm thrilled to have a truly special guest and great friend, Michelle Howe. Michelle is the founder of Empath Evolution as the creator of the Authenticity Factor, a unique approach that integrates empathy with vision to create breakthrough results. She's here today to share her wisdom on how you can lead with heart, embrace authenticity, and step into a new era of leadership. Michelle, welcome to the show. I'm really excited to have you share your wisdom with us. Thank you Anastasia. It's great to be here. Yes. So let's start with the foundation. Empathy. You see it as a core leadership skill, but also something much deeper. How do you see empathy? Empathy, right? Um, empathy is about feeling. Empathy is about tuning into feeling. And when you do that, you can see what's happening with yourself and with other people. You can see deeper into the realities around you than what appearances or what words are being spoken to you. It's that ability to tune in, to tune in for yourself, and then to tune into what is going on with other people. Because it's beyond appearances beyond words is empathy. Yeah, it's like this unspoken thing that happens between two people. at least my experience, is that when you meet somebody, you already have assessed them in the first millisecond or two, and you don't even know why. And then afterwards, you figure it out. Well, It is an interesting dynamic, I have to say, because sometimes it is that quick, and you don't always know why you feel or don't feel what you feel towards a person, and that probably is a stumbling block for many of us, I know for myself at times, I'm just like, I have no idea why, but I heard this person's voice, all I had to do was hear the voice, I didn't even see the person, and immediately it's a no, Where's that coming from? And, you know, I've dove in deep into why so many different times. There's so many rabbit holes that I've gone down just to try to understand what this, it's a natural gift. Some of us have it in spades and other ones of us don't have very much of it. Some have none of it. I just recently had a reaction To someone that another coach was telling me what an awesome woman this is and on and on and every time I heard her voice it was like, I can't deal with it. And I try to push it down but that's actually a bad idea. Well, it's there for a reason. Right? The question is, everyone loves this person. I should love this person. What are you tuning into that's not evidentially clear from an outside perspective? Other people don't see it. Why are you wrong for having that response to that person? Exactly. Why would we, because I have a feeling that my lived experience at least has been, and even with my clients, Empathic people tend to take things on as if it's them that has a problem. And, why am I reacting this way? What's wrong with me? As opposed to, because we don't want to feel anything negative. We don't want to not like somebody. So of course, we're looking. There must be something wrong. I don't understand where this feeling is coming from. so we can intellectualize this, right. And I'm like a pro at intellectualizing things. And then there is a point where you just believe and you listen and you tune in and you get information, which you cannot necessarily verify, but as you step into it more and more, you find out that it's wisdom. I have to agree with that. There's some wisdom in there. it's some experience that you had what I have found is that tone, what's in someone's words, like it's beyond, like it has got information, there's information in there that You cannot communicate what that is. It's a feeling you can try to describe it, but at the end of the day, it's your experience. It's in your body. It's in your psyche. Somebody else looking at that same person is not you. You have like finely tuned, experiences that you bring forward. That you bring with you and you know how you perceive energy is always going to be your own way, different from other people, so why not get really comfortable with what that is instead of second guessing, doubting, being upset about it, there's something wrong, it's not like how other people do it, maybe I'm wrong, like, no. that, that's gotta stop. Yeah, I love that about you that, you're just going, okay, you're okay the way you are. We have to start with a certain baseline. Otherwise, we're wrong. And so how did you start down this path? what brought you to create this empath evolution? I did not know the word empath. I can give you a description of how I was when I was growing up. I was aware, I was watching, I was knowing things. That I didn't know what they were. Like it just, this doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel right. This person's this, that person's that. when I was really young, I really didn't know what any of this meant, but I knew enough at one point, I'm not going to tell people that I'm sensitive to anything they say, because that will be perceived as weakness. By the people around me. So I kept a real tight lid on who I had a very rich inner life. Like I just was curious and watchful, right? Proceed go forward to high school and I would come home and I would need to eat and gorge myself at times in order to feel better. and energized from my day. Didn't know why. I could, you know, look at my aunt and look at my grandmother and just kind of scrutinize their behavior a little bit. I was just watchful, very curious. You get to college and what did I have? I had an eating disorder. Imagine that, all that from when I was younger turned into an eating disorder. Like, all right. We're going to take care of this, right? I learned a bunch of stuff. Always very inquisitive. Took my first psychic development course in my 20s. Loved it, right? Then of course you move forward, you meet the guy you're going to marry, I have my three kids and I'm making do with my life, I'm making do, I'm like, you know, I need quiet time. I need the kids to be relaxed. I need a break. It was easier to go to work than sometimes with the kids at home. It was a lot more at home. And I knew, I'm like, eh, I'm not planning too many things on the weekend because I'm not having fun when there's too many things going on. Totally identify with all of that. Yeah. Along the way, I noticed, that I was, moody. I was moody in my 20s and even my 30s. It's like, what is this thing? Is it, is it, is it, you know, just my cycles? What is this? Oh, it's hormonal. It's gotta be hormonal. So I kept on trying to figure out, but I never had a word for it. And then when I got to about 40, I, met someone who changed my life forever because I could read this person inside and out. And I'm like, oh my gosh, how is it that I am able to read this so intimately? Like, and it feels amazing. And I just really got a different experience, I guess that's the only way to put it, of a friendship that felt so strong and so connected that I was like, wow. And that, you know, the good part and the bad part, the bad part is, I lost myself in the middle of that because it was just so strong. on the back end, I, I looked at it and I was like, you know, I don't understand what the heck's going on. I don't understand what just happened to me. And that is not cool. Not cool at all. So then I started to really dig deeper because I basically, I don't say banished this person, but I cut off the relationship because it was that, challenging for me. It was confusing for me to understand what was happening between us. So I set that aside and then I started looking for answers and I found sensitivity. I'm like, yeah, yeah, I'm sensitive. But then I found 30 Traits of an Empath. And when I found the 30 traits, I was like, oh, this is me. This has always been me. You mean other people don't have this knowing? You mean other people don't feel these things? Like, in all my life I've had people, they just share their worst stories with me. Yeah, in the first five minutes of meeting them. And then I've had people turn around, did you know that person? No, I just met them. What? It's funny because I didn't mind it, but my husband's like, there's something wrong with you, Michelle. This is not normal. And I'm like, well, no, it's not normal, but I don't mind. Like I feel like I'm privileged enough that they're sharing. and to me it's a connection that's pretty cool that someone would feel that comfortable sharing this. Right, you feel safe to them. Yeah. Yeah, there's a trustworthiness. My, my husband actually has that too. He's got this trustworthiness. When we got back together after not seeing each other for so long, I just looked at him, I said, I just trust you. I know I can tell you anything. And we're in that kind of tuned thing where we're tuned with one another. But yes, exactly. So tell us more about your approach. You have this approach, uh, what exactly you do and how you guide leaders into this new way of thinking and leading by embracing their empath ness. Yeah. So, you know, I, I look at the world and I look in around and we're all doing our best. Right. Right. Right. We're all doing our best every day. The world's challenging this way, challenging that way. At the end of the day, I looked around and I'm like, huh. There's a lot of people that are empaths and they know they're empaths, but it's a very small margin that know. There's more of a margin of people that are very empathic or empaths that do not know what that word means or how it truly impacts them. So I look at the problems in the world and I look at mental health, wellness, and All these things that are not going, you know, chaos, drama, emotionality, reactivity, all these things that are normal parts of life. But when you're really in tune with yourself and you cherish, or you appreciate, or you want to feel good about yourself, And your, body's got to, all of this has to feel good. Otherwise you're going to find some sort of a coping mechanism that may or may not be healthy. like overeating or drinking or drugs or trying to drown out those voices. True. It's like, it's too much coming at you. And I think a lot of times Most people will dumb down their emotions and even close them off, put them in the closet, and I don't ever want to look at you again. and because that whole emotional side of things is not something that we tell our sons to look at. As a matter of fact, that's not what we want from the men. We don't want them to show their emotions. And the women, it's about, Oh yes, you need to carry your emotions and everybody else's around you. Because you're the woman, And men are told it's okay to be mad, but nothing else. There is no education around what this is for us. So, when I can't come into this and I look around, I'm like, Let's, first of all, start bringing some balance to how we lead. it's not supposed to be all logical. There's no way that it is. It's definitely at least 50 percent not logical. Like some of us are 50 50, other ones are 80 20, but really to bring society into more of a balance in your life, yourself into more harmony, you need to be able to look at both things. That's feeling yourself physically, mentally, like all of it comes together. It's not one dimension that you live in. Your body's not listening to your thoughts every second and listening. Your body is a feeling being. It's here. It's going to show you different things In fact, your posture and your facial expressions can shift your emotions so you're in tune. That's a two way conversation, right? When you feel happy, you smile. But if you're not feeling happy at the moment, if you smile, you'll start to notice your mood shift almost immediately. Isn't that fascinating? very fascinating. Like, we can't stay mad if you're laughing. Correct. You really can't stay mad, even though you might want to. my approach and what I've done, what I've cultivated, is I'm pretty spiritual myself. I've got pretty active spiritual body. And with that, it's activating other people in ways that they may or may not fully understand. But they're going to feel it. So the idea is to bring out the very best of a person, have them listen, follow, lead with feeling as opposed to thinking their way through everything, bringing that feeling, the wisdom of feeling into their life so they can flow with where they're going instead of, let me just write out this path exactly because life is a dance. We're going to dance with life. I'm not doing surgery on you. This is not surgery where we're cutting in and we're fixing something. This is your mind. This is your emotions. This is the way you perceive and look. And how do we change those quote unquote vibrations that you're holding? So actually you're integrating people. Yes. Right. I'm just thinking you're bringing them in, but you're integrating what they already have into their awareness so they're able to use it so they can be the best people they can be. Teaching them to recognize they are not just moving through unconsciously. Exactly. And then the other thing, but people don't realize, and I've heard this from salespeople. Okay. This is just there that people make buying decisions on emotion and then they back it up with logic. Yeah. Oh, always. Always, right? But isn't it interesting that at the end of the day, we need to be able to logically support a decision instead of saying, I just felt like it. I just love new things. Isn't this the thing that I just bought? we have to be able to substantiate, verify, prove that this was a great decision on our end. You know, maybe just to ourselves even, but that's, you know, instead of saying I'm buying a house because I just really want a house, well, the market is good. And then this is that, and then this came up like, Just, you just want a house. That's it. This is a house. Yes and no are full sentences. You don't need anything else beyond it. It's almost like proving to somebody else or validating to somebody else or validating to yourself why this was such a great decision that you made and you're absolutely right for making it. As if there's a right and a wrong. There's just what you want, right? I had a woman explain to me one time why she had to get a divorce. And she went through this whole, This whole litany of reasons and I go, you know what? All you have to do is say, I don't want this anymore. She goes, she turned around and looked at me and goes, that's revolutionary to her was she didn't need a logical reason. It's just, I don't want it. It's sad that we don't know that we have permission to do that. Exactly. Like, we need to prove something to someone. We don't. Prove something to the world. Prove that we're valued. Prove that, no, we don't need any of that. We just need to step forward and do what we do. And then be happy with what we do. It's like, Sabotage 101. we put all these, things in our way in order for us to be doing it correctly, to be right. I know that when I would make decisions and I never noticed this till I was maybe in my 30s. I'm like, why is it that when I make decisions, I don't really know what I'm doing until I get up close and personal and then I feel what that is and then I say yes or no. But I don't know till I can do a black and white list of logic. So sometimes some decisions for me are absolutely yes. I don't even think about it. Other decisions are absolutely no. Then the stuff in the middle, I'm like, I don't know what to do with you. I'm like, I'll make a list. I've always done this, whenever I'm making a decision, I'll just sit and talk it out with myself, and then I can make the decision, and, from what I understand from human design, some people feel it in their guts, some people feel it in their stomach, some people, and for me, it's just, if I hear it, then I know what to do. Definitely. So the hearing part, one of the things around this whole journey that for me was just a breakthrough was listening to the tone and the way that I say things and what comes out tells me where I'm at and what I can trust and what I cannot trust. that's awesome. You know, just distinguishing because there's a lot of times when you're off kilter just a little bit. The way you're thinking is skewed. you're trying to find your way through, but things are muddied. Your lens is muddied. You're not seeing clearly what the truth is. maybe a lot of this is subconscious to you. You don't know what's interfering, but something is in the way So when you talk things out loud. You can, yes, reason with yourself. Yes, find a conclusion that works. It's not reasoning. It's just Dialogue. Is this the right thing for me to do? Yes. And then it'll, the answer will say yes or no, right? It's just I have to hear it. answer will say yes or no. You'll hear the answer in your head. Yeah, I'll hear the answer in my head. a lot of that is the psychic thing, the ability to be able to hear and to trust what you're hearing. Cause if you undermine what you heard, that's right. You'd be nowhere. Exactly. And I grew up in a household where, we were told how to feel, how to think, how to be. You have to be polite no matter what, even if that person is mean to you, Men are right. Women are wrong. It was terrible. This is ridiculous. That is where a lot of us have grown up. Yeah, but they said it very Greek. I grew up in a big fat Greek family and it's very male oriented. Yeah. If I had grown up in Greece, I would have not had the career that I had, this just would have been impossible. That's true. Yeah. So I'm, I'm happy that I was able to break free from that. you are here in the US, so there are opportunities here that are not. There, my, wake up to the reality moment. My epiphany was when I was so sick, I only had two good hours a day. and I had a husband just like my mom who suppressed me all the time. And I was so sick. And then I just said, is it him or is it me? I choose me. From then on I made decisions based on what I wanted and not what they wanted, you know, 40 That's the magic age. It sure is It's the magic age for a lot of women because what happens before then we're flooded with estrogen And I call estrogen the compliance hormone Like, we want to get along with everybody, we're going to raise our children, we gotta have a husband who's there and you put up with it. And then when you turn 40, you're going, what, no, I have to have an identity too. And I'm not giving up my identity and my life for that. So that's why I became a healer, is that. Well, you became a healer too because you tried the traditional road. Yes, that did not lead you. No good for your life, you know, I healed myself when doctors couldn't Yep. Yes, exactly. I think it's interesting with the estrogen thing I was almost married before I was married to my husband I almost married at 22 and that wedding I ended two months before my wedding. I, one day, I did not like what he said to me. And we had been arguing. I do not do well with arguing. That's another trait. I do not, I do not, I cannot do it, cannot do it very well at all. Yeah, I walk away from it. Just, if you can't talk to me like a reasonable human being, I'm out of here. Well, I don't do fighting is very draining to me and it just came to a point What he said I've had it like I went to church that morning And I looked up and I'm like in my head am I going to do this? What and all I heard back was you'll be divorced in two years Well, you do that talking thing too. Oh, absolutely. And I'm like, I'll be damned. I'm like, all right. Well, you know what? There's only two months left till I get married. What am I going to do? Walk down the aisle knowing that it was that clear in that moment. And God helped me in that moment. I don't really, I'm more spiritual than religious when I say that, but. That, in my head, I'm like, I just need to do what I need to do. It was like, I didn't think through tomorrow, I just did, I went to his house, here you go, I'll see you later. I'm like, and it was done. And my mother's like, what did you do? My brother's like, what did you do? I'm like, leave me alone. I'm like, I just need to cry now, and I'm like, it's done. it's better to stop now. than to go through with it because it's much harder afterwards. that takes a lot of courage. It takes a lot of courage in that moment. I broke it off with him and everything kind of fell. Everybody was in shock. It's done, right? But then, I wasn't quite, it was like someone just cut this with a, with a, with a scissors without me even being slightly prepared. That I was, I didn't plan it ahead. I didn't think it ahead. I just did based on that moment. And, I ended up. retrying things, you know how people go back and forth, they come together, they, so we did that a couple times more and, but at least this time I wasn't engaged. I didn't have this, this deadline of this date that we were getting married at. So to me, the lesson was, my God, I was, I was upset. I actually love a man that I cannot be married to. Who does that? this gone this long and I'm, I love him. But marriage is not in the cards. So it was heartbreaking to say goodbye to somebody that you loved, but he wasn't going to be the mate that you needed him to be. Yes, I actually, when I was 21, I did get married, and two years later we were divorced. So I actually went through it, because I didn't have the courage to, because I kept telling everybody, I don't think I should marry him, and they go, oh, what do you mean, he's a good guy. Yeah. Yeah. So, yes. So you were much braver than I was. I have, I don't want to say a low tolerance, but I have a pretty strong personality. No kidding. At one point I said, so after I was done with this man and I'm dating, I'm like, none of these men are going to work. This is me. I'm like, I'm not meeting anybody that I think is worth any of my time and I'm driving the car and I'm talking to myself. I'm like, if you don't bring me somebody good, easy, I am not getting married. This is allowed. I am not getting married because I don't need to be in that position where I'm miserable. I'd rather be by myself than miserable with a man. And I think it was a couple weeks later, I met my husband. And he was easy button. He was easy button. I'm like, it's not fighting. It's not any of those things. It's just an easy relationship. I mean, That's the same with me, but it took me 20 years to find him. Well, you had found him, then you let him go. Well, that was only 17 when I let him go. Yeah, so what do you know, 17, I know, I get it, I get it. I had big plans. Yeah, well, we all, we all have plans until our best plans are changed, things shift in a different direction. Yeah, well, I knew I was going to get my doctorate before I entered college. here's this guy who was, getting too serious too fast and I said, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, that was him? He was doing that? Yes. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, he told me I broke his heart back then, but he forgave me later. was he married as well as you? when we found each other again, he had been a widower for three years, and he was, not very healthy. He was 80 pounds overweight and just living his life out. And he figured he was going to die soon. He didn't expect to meet anybody. And now he's lost all those 80 pounds. He's slender and healthier than ever. He had to go through a quadruple bypass in the meantime, but he's lost all that weight and it's just like you were saying, the easy button. We don't have arguments. We inform each other., It's so easy. And he'll look at me, he goes, Why do people have so much trouble in relationships? Because we don't, we have zero, zero trouble. I don't think I could do it, to be honest with you. I don't think I could do anything but what I have because as much as I could love a person, if I'm going to fight with you, It's a slow erosion of that love, Cause you're taking away my, my peace of mind, my sanity, So who's your ideal client? Who benefits most from this approach? Listen, I think it is the, it's a person like me. Empathic, driven, creative, who's looking to be more fully empowered with how they show up, to understand who they are and how they function, and to get that validation. they have to have that drive and desire. Not everybody wants to improve themselves. No. Not everybody does. sometimes I'd be like, Oh, it's people that are struggling with some sort of, of emotional pain, but it's beyond that. It's the person that wants to understand more, wants to be fully, I don't say activated. Isn't that an easy Well, how about they're tired of how they feel now and they want to move past it And they don't really know how to get out of it. How to elevate the way they're feeling and step into something that's more powerful. Yeah, to step into something more powerful. Not everybody, some people are attached to their pain because they have it as something to anchor themselves and they're holding on to the pain because they get a lot of sympathy from other people. And so they'll identify, I met this woman. She says, I'm a damaged child of alcoholics. And I said to her, so what did that give you? Oh, it just ruined me emotionally. I go, but to me, you look like a very strong woman and you're raising your children in a different way. Oh, yes, absolutely. So. You wanted to move past it, so move past it. This is a much longer conversation, but that's kind of the gist of it. Yeah, the gist of it is you can keep yourself in a certain place through exactly the way you think and the way you see it. If you don't see outside of that, If you don't have the vision and the drive to see outside of that, that you are something more than the conditions of which you were raised, and the labels of which you receive, if you don't have that inner knowing that there's something more for you, Let me find that out. Yeah, it's the inner spark. we all have this, I call it the divine spark that's within us that we deserve nothing but the best and all of it. And they have the expectation that you're going to get the best And some people have tried to extinguish it because they've lived their life a different way. And haven't realized that they can actually be relaxed, happy, and joyful in their relationships. It's almost like the lights are out. Yes. The lights are out in certain ways. They've just kind of succumbed to whatever it is. they don't see where something could be different from what it is. Yeah. A lot of times that really makes me cry to see people suffering that much unnecessarily. Unnecessarily, but they're not looking for a solution. They're just kind of acquiescing to what it is. And really the client that's going to work for me understands that there's something more that that's out there that they want to become and step into. They see the disparities around them. They see the people that are running around in circles and they just, need more people on their team, more people beside them in their community to help show them what that could look like, because there's so much of the world that's operating in a daze. Not, not living into the reality of life, that we're all divine beings. And that we have the ability to be joyful, happy, and free. Joyful, happy, and free, and impactful. Impactful, yes. Impactful, you're intelligent, you have knowledge, you have the ability to impact the direct people in your family, in your community, the way you step into the world in any room impacts other people. Yes. It's that ability to look beyond. Just the regular and the mundane and the typical things in life To want to do something a little bit more with yourself because you know And you sense and you feel that there's more needed in the world. Yes, it's just like in the HeartMath Institute, they've shown that your emotions radiate out at least 20 to 25 feet. And if you're feeling joyful, you spread joy, because it's a much higher frequency than anger or, depression or guilt. and it spreads to other people. It permeates. It sure does. It permeates everybody. So the more of us that are activated and truly embracing and truly being who we are, the more good can happen in the world. I completely agree. Yeah. I've heard you talk about the five pillars within your work. Can you walk us through them really quickly? Sure. Sure. My five pillars are, feeling, healing, Being, becoming and allowing. All right, so let me explain them. Feeling is the ability to tune into what you're feeling within yourself and around you. It's huge. It's key. All right, it's feminine. The feminine energy within men or women. We need to step back into what that is. Feeling, healing. Now, that's a broader term. What are you healing? You're healing Disfunction, you're healing, separating yourself from other people you're healing things that have hurt you in the past. It's like a release, the healing. Then the next ones are being. Who are you being today? Who are you showing up as? That being is not necessarily about acting. It's about being. Who are you being? Who are you becoming? when you really look at life, every single day is your graceful moment to become the next version of who you are. It's beautiful when you look at it that way. Life is not mundane. Life is not boring. You're becoming. Yes, always. Always. One moment to the next. We're never finished products. No. And the last part is allowing. Allowing whether it is. a challenging emotion, a challenging person, things you agree with, things you don't agree with, allowing others to do what they do and allowing yourself that same grace to do what you need to do. It's not about forcing, it's about allowing. So those are my five pillars which really encompass everything that Empath Evolution is here to bring to the table. I think they're awesome. I never thought of them that way, but I love it. So you're launching something really exciting soon, a small intimate program called Expansion to Joy. And what inspired you to create this program, and what can participants expect? So what inspired me is the fact that I have all this knowledge, And I have all this want to see people shift from the inside out, from the inside out. And so, expansion to joy was a word given to me a long time ago. It is the result. You expand into a bigger version of yourself and you are an expression of joy in doing that. Whatever it is that you decide to do in your life, you show up as that. I just have a little, yeah, period to put in the end of that. Whenever I connect to spirits on the other side, they're always joyful and they're fun and they're funny. They, they're not, they're not all these serious. It's not serious. Joyful, joy is such a high frequency emotion. It's about as high as you can get and still have an ego to stay alive. Like we can't exist at that fully, what do you call, fully enlightened place. you can't you have to have an ego in order you have to feed yourself and you have to Absolutely, and house yourself and clothe yourself So you need a bit of an ego, but you can live in joy all the time We actually can it is a challenge. I will say that it is a challenge with what we have going on around us. So there is more to be considered, but, The more people we inspire into joy, the less of that will start happening. Yes. The more people consciously are going to choose joy and, it's about really holding on to what is you and making sure that shows up every day. Yes. And when you're the only one in your family that's moving into that space, what'll happen is they'll all go, I want what she's having. And they'll start shifting too. That's happened in my family. Well, they'll either try to bring you down. Yeah, or ignore you. Or ignore you. And eventually what you have seeps into them more and they start seeing it. But it's not by design that you're forcing it on them. No. It's by you just being who you are. Right? It's the I want what she's having. So it's us having fun with what this is instead of feeling like we need to hide it. We need permission to show up as that. The authenticity factor is about really having the courage to be who you are without apology, without looking for approval from anybody. Who are you? Who are you being? Who are you becoming? Are you showing people who that is? Because the moment you show somebody your heart, they're like, oh, now they know you. And they even trust you and will open up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just a matter of you, as that empathic person, knowing how to hold that space. And how to be, this amazing feeling inside permeates you and it's, you're holding space and it's not taking you down to be there for other people because your energy is that strong already. So for those listening who feel called to step into this work with you, how can they learn more about your program or private mentorship opportunities? what I recommend is you email me, um, michelle@empathevolution.com because you know I can, yeah. I'll put all of this information in the show notes so people can just go to, uh, helping healer succeed.com and find out and get all of that information. Yep. I mean, I could give you a webpage, but I think it's a little easier when I'm having a conversation and really being able. to explain directly and see what it is that that person is saying, what it is that they're needing so I can bridge the conversation and explain it. And whether it's appropriate for them or not. Absolutely. Yeah. So Michelle, this has been such an enlightening conversation and I love how you blend personal transformation with leadership, making it about alignment rather than achievement. In fact, I just want to let people know that Michelle and I are planning to do a series of these and it's going to be called Beyond Logic and that's what this is. We're going beyond logic, right? before we go, I want to highlight one more time that your upcoming cohort is designed for those ready to break free from conventional leadership. In other words, Beyond logic and step into a more fulfilling way of leading and living. So can you leave us with one final thought? What's the biggest shift people experience when they step into this work with you? The biggest thing I've seen is that they start seeing the light in everybody around them and within themselves. They start just really being honored to have and to be who they are. I love that. Yeah. I really love that. And I've seen a lot of the amazing testimonials on your website of people that finally feel alive, awake, and themselves, Instead of suppressing that part of you. I know being a scientist, I had to suppress that thing and I just never could. Like, I would go to meetings and everybody would talk about their research, and I go, oh, how are your kids ? How's your wife,? Those are the things you're interested in. It's, it's beyond the superficial, it's really beyond that I think it's just going back to being, having the kind of wide eyed wonder that little children have, right? You experience life from that joyful perspective. It's priceless. we could, we could have the most, I don't say accomplished life. Accomplishment is not a bad thing. Accomplishment is good, except that it can be limiting when that's all you're chasing. Exactly. You're chasing it. You're accomplishing it, but is there, what is it that, what did you miss while you were accomplishing all these things? Well, because life is more than one thing. and not everybody is made for all of these. Everyone's made a little different, so I respect that. Their goal, their desire. But at the end of the day, on someone's deathbed, they're not telling you that they wish they had written more science reports. They had published more things. They're saying how they wish they had more time to spend with this person, or that they really love that other person. It's coming into the yin and the yang of life and really honoring this opportunity, because at some point, mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, you are all those things. If you just excelled. at some physical level. And you're out of balance. Hello. Okay. Nice to see you. Go back down. Go do it again. Find a better way of making this work. You know, when people run into issues, whether it's, career, family, marriages, relationships, those are all important aspects of your life. Exactly. And one shouldn't be neglected for the other. No, It's an avoidance. It's, I'm good at this, so I'm going to do this thing, but it's not the flavor of what you want to leave behind because our lives are set. There's not, we're not here forever. Nope. And before you know it, you turn around and oh, yeah, my time came and my time went. I know when I think about being 72, I'm going Whoa, where did it go? That's not me! I know. I look in the mirror, am I really 72? I know, I know, just don't pay attention to the I don't, I don't. I'm just so happy to be alive like every morning I take deep breaths and I'm going, wow, it just feels really great to be here. And everything starts to come alive. It's awesome. You know, it's an appreciation for life. Or I don't think we had this when we were 10, 15, 20. 25, 30 even. at about the age of 20, between 20 and 30, you still think you're immortal. Yeah. And you don't realize that your life can end. And then it was for me, the year was when I turned 33. And I'm going, wait, I'm getting old. And some days I go, yeah, that would be nice to be 33 again. Right. You know, if I knew at 33, what I know now, but back then. My life was so full with so many other things. Yes. Raising children. I didn't have the bandwidth or, or the, even the direction to look in at. There's too many other things happening in front of me. So it's like a building up of who you're becoming all along the way. Yes. So, Michelle, we're, we've been going for quite some time, so I love all your perspectives. Thank you so much for sharing them and for people to connect with you, to email you at michelle at empath evolution. com. And I'll put that in the show notes. Awesome. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you. You're welcome. Don't forget to give this broadcast a thumbs up or five star rating. Share it with your friends and subscribe to this channel so you don't miss the next episode on Helping You Succeed. Thank you for tuning in to Helping Healers Succeed podcast. You'll find resources and show notes on our website at helpinghealersucceed. com. Until next time , I'm Dr. Anastasia Chopelas sending you golden healing light and success vibes on your journey to becoming a powerful, confident healer, coach, or intuitive. Remember, your gifts are so needed in this world.